Neuter for Safety
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:33:26 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: pepper spray
I wish I didn't know this but I do. Pepper spray will stop a very angry 600 pound male lion immediately. It does not have any long term or adverse side effects that we are aware of.
With that being said I would also like to explain how I know this. I would not advocate using pepper spray on any animal as a training technique but only in an extreme situation where no other option is available. Our Kodiak (male african lion) had a vasectomy at about age 4 because we did not want to breed. At the time we did the vas we did it verses neutering because we wanted Kodiak to be able to keep his most beautiful full black mane. He was an absolute gentle giant to deal with so any behaviorial problems did not exist.
Now we jump 9 years into the future and we started noticing that Kodiak would have a grumpy afternoon once in a while. He would charge the cage and seemed to want to guard the tiger he shared his enclosure with. The tiger and the lion had been together since the lion was 6 weeks old and the tiger was 10 or 12 weeks old. They had always enjoyed each others company and with them both now 13 years old we were not really too excited about the possibility of having to separate these 2 old friends. Kodiak's behavior escalated from bad afternoon to bad days and to bad weeks. During this time he would guard the tiger the same way a male would guard his female mate. The tiger had been neutered when he was 4 years old about the same time that Kodiak had been vasectomized.
When Kodiak's behavior became more and more dangerous we knew that we were at a point where we had to either neuter him or put him down. He was not the same loving and gentle giant I had known for 10 years. After searching out information from others who were willing to share their knowledge we formulated a plan to get Kodiak neutered. Don Jackson at Turpentine Creek and Tricia Hodson at the Born Free Foundation were both very kind and shared information that helped us make a well informed decision about how to handle Kodiak's situation.
When Kodiak really began giving us fits was in the late fall of 97. We did the research but we needed to wait until the weather was warmer before we did surgery so that Kodiak would not get too cold. We did not have any place indoors with enough heat to keep him after surgery. Cats just like humans cannot maintain there body temperature very well when they undergo surgery and can get hypothermic easily if they are not kept warm enough. Anyway we had to figure out a way to get into the next spring/summer so we could more safely do the surgery. To get us by we opted to use oral diazepam (valium) that we could give Kodiak in pieces of stew meat we fed him by hand. We did separate him and his tiger for the tigers safety. Kodiak was so bad that he was not sure whether he was going to kill Big Foot or Breed him or in which order. It was a very scary time for us.
The valium worked quite well and we gave him far less than what we were told he could have. Just enough to take the edge off of his temporary insanity. After a while though Kodiak being the smart fella he is figured out that something was up with the meat and would take spells where he would refuse food for up to 3 days at a time. During this time he would become very angry and aggressive and agitated. Whenever anybody would go near his cage to feed or even just walk by he would come at a dead run and charge the cage so hard we knew that the 9 gauge chain link could not continue to take that kind of a beating on a regular basis so we decided to use the pepper spray just as a deterant to try to get him to stop charging the cage.
We only had to use the pepper spray on 3 occasions. The first time Kodiak stopped immediately in his tracks and looked rather confused. He turned around and went several yards back from the cage and layed down and began trying to bath the stuff off. Note: Be sure to pay attention to the slightest breeze and which direction it is blowing. Everytime we use the pepper spray we also got a little dose of it too. Definately gets your attention and makes you not want to use it unless you absolutely have too.
The second time we used the spray was about 15 to 20 minutes after the first time and the same thing happen; he immediately went several yards away and this time he did not charge the fence again although he did sit back in his enclosure and stare daggers at us and grumble.
The third time we used the spray was a few weeks later when he decided once again that he could go without food for 4 days. When he charged the cage he also saw me raise the pepper spray and he retreated so quickly that when I sprayed it he was already a few feet away and only got a light dose of the stuff.
After that if he would even look like he wanted to charge the cage all I had to do was to hold up the can and show it to him and he would stare daggers and grumble but he would not charge the cage.
Anyway the next July we managed to dart Kodiak using only 4 cc of a telazol, ketamine, & rompun mix. This sedated him enough that we were able to use a one gallon milk jug with some duct tape as a mask and get him on isoflourene gas and perform the neuter. We also dripped him with IV fluids while he was under the gas so that he was very well hydrated in hopes that the added fluids would help to wash out the injectable meds more quickly. Within 3 hours after the surgery Kodiak was up and walking around although he was still quite woozey and only would take a few steps at a time.
Within 2 weeks Kodiak's temporary insanity was gone and he was back to being the kind and gentle giant that we had always known. It has been almost a year since his surgery and he is still doing quite well and is now 15 years old.
Anyway I would venture to say with pepper spray that in the event of an attack you would want to be careful that you use it correctly and make sure you spray the cat and realize that the victim is also going to get a milder dose of the stuff as well. I would use it with the same reasoning that they teach women to use the stuff when being attacked by a rapist. Hit and run; meaning use the spray and be prepared to remove the victim being attacked very quickly while somebody else has the pepper spray ready to use again.
This is just my own personal experience with pepper spray and may not be consistant with other situations. Hope is helps. Glenda :)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:07:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: FEL-L: pepper spray
Has anyone tried vinegar mixed with water? We have a spray bottle we put it in and all Sugar has to do is see the bottle. She knows that the bottle of vinegar spray means NO! It works.
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:33:26 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: spray bottle
<< Has anyone tried vinegar mixed with water?
We use this method on the tiger and same here all she has to do is see the bottle now. And right away she knows we mean NO. Works Good
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:51:51, -0500 Subject: FEL-L: Fwd: Re: Vinegar and water
Yes, We used it with a hissy, pissy Serval that was getting out of control. It didn't take long before the sight of the bottle aimed at him and a loud NO! was all it took. Soon, just a NO!. I am very happy to report that he turned out to be a wonderful cat and is in a new loving home.
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:40:55 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: Fwd: Re: Vinegar and water
My serval LOVES to be sprayed with vinegar and water .... Thankfully, it is never really needed with him ... However, my caracal can be a pill -- she absolutely hates the spray -- I usually only have to TELL her I'm going for the spray bottle .... Kids ...sigh .…