Clumping Litter - or NOT ???

Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:55:32 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

OK here goes. I have a copy of an article that appeared in the Tiger Tribe Magazine titled "Are Clumping Litters a Deadly Convenience? by Marina McInnis. It is a pretty convincing article about Japanese Bobtails who fell ill with a "mysterious illness". Only after the death of several kittens was the mystery "solved". It was clumps of litter inside the kittens.

I don't know if it would be OK to send this article as an attachment to the list. It does say reprinted with the permission of the author and Tiger Tribe Magazine on the copy I have. What do you think?

When we got our first Serval kittens, the male fell ill after about a week with us. He vomited up grey foam and was not wanting to eat. Right away our vet sugested using rabbit pellets instead of kitty litter. Within 2 days he was up to snuff and never had another problem. Then when we got our first Bengals the same thing happened but I remembered right away, switched to a wheat litter and have never had a problem.

The clumping clay may only affect a few cats, usually kittens, but why take the chance? One dead kitten is too many. The wheat is safe, convienient, and CHEAP.

Just my opinion for what it's worth. Katzpat1

Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:30:08 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

I also use the wheat products for my litter. A few years ago when the clumping kind came out I used it and really liked it until I was keeping my son's tiny cross breed dog. Had a nasty habit of eating what was in the litter box. Killed him deader than a wedge. Took a few days to do it. My son had him posted and he was packed with the stuff. Just couldn't get it going out. Karla

Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:42:13 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

Please try the wheat mids for the sake of your kittens. It clumps just like clay (or even better) but won't hurt the kitties. I clean a lot of litter boxes and have found the wheat to be a great litter!! Katzpat1

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:09:51 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

I can tell you stories about clumping litter and losing some cats to it. All cats like to be clean and some cats like to play in water and when they get into the litter and it is clumping it stickes to their feet-------they will lick it off and itr gets and stays in their tummy's. It will kill them because I have lost a wonderful cat like this. If you have a kennel and raise cats and the kennel has a concrete floor and you hose it down---the cats will get their feet wet and get in the sand and again clean their feet off etc.

There have been cases of mother cats that have insisted in having and keeping their babies in the sand box and the babies nurse on their mother and her nipples get wet and the clumping litter stickes to them and the babies nurse again and get the litter into their tummy's and the entire litter will die. It has happened to a friend of mine.

Another case is when the male squats and piddles and his penis gets wet and the litter stickes to it. I know of several males that had to have surgery. At least they did not die.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Jan

Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:08:53 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

Once again, do NOT use pine. I don't know what kind or where you get wood litter but make sure it is not made from pine or CCA treated lumber. That contains all sorts of chemicals. The wheat sounds good.

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:28:14 -0700 Subject: RE: FEL-L: swollen feet

Someone, maybe Katzpat1, mentioned that cedar could also be harmful. I would be interested in any additional information about this.

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:45:42 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

It would be best to stay away cedar in any chip or pulverized form... All varieties of cedar contain some volatile oils that can lead to serious health compromises... The Western Red Cedar, used mostly for shakes and some decking and wall covers is the lowest in oils, and, if used as aged, smooth surface lumber, cats can tolerate it.

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:22:49 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

The predominate volatiles of cedar are terpenes... These can be a mild to intense skin irritant causing burning and swelling and can be absorbed by the pads... If inhaled they can cause lung irritation to respiratory distress... If ingested they can cause GI distress and possible liver toxicosis... A lot depends on actual exposure and and the state of the material's oxidation.

Some pine woods are also high in terpenes... There are plenty woods in chip form which are fine for cat bedding, although the cedars are often chosen for their strong insect repellant properties... Not good for cats though. Personally, I would play it to the safe side with bedding chips from softwoods... Because it's readily available here, we actually use various grasses cut during hay season, sudan grass being first choice...

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:25:42 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

I have used both cedar and pine shavings in large amounts with no ill effects whatsoever with all my cats. Bobs to Tigers. The loved the shavings and enjoyed rolling in them and playing with them. None of my cats seemed to want to ingest them in anyway. Maybe I was just lucky but we had a source of donated shavings and I used them for over a year without any complications. Maybe the wood was dry enough or something so that it did not bother the cats. Most of the shavings that are sold as animal bedding come from kiln dryed wood. The shavings come off the wood as it is run through the planer which is after the wood comes out of a dry kiln. Like I say maybe I was just lucky. Glenda

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:24:46 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

I am not sure about using cedar shaving with cats, but I know it will kill some dogs. There is something in the oil that some dogs, especially pups, are very allergic to. Pups have died from being in it and had all kinds of really bad allergic reactions like thier skin and eyes being messed up. The side effects of this can last for months or sometimes forever with pups. I know they are different than cats but thought I would put this on the list. Since I breed Great Danes, I am on a mailing list for them. There was a week long discussion on cedar shavings last month, otherwise I would not have known about it. I have used cedar in the past, but have now switched to pine shavings. Just a thought. Karla

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:33:15 -0700 Subject: RE: FEL-L: swollen feet

Thanks for the information. Do you know what kind of symptoms the pups had before they died, or what the cause of death was attributed to? I just read something about pine shavings being bad too.

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:44:51 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: swollen feet

Sure, I can give you some of the symptoms. All the dogs reacted differently. This is just a group of what was seen by different breeders. Terrible cough, skin lesions beginning with a bright red rash, skin actually breaking open and bleeding, swollen,infected eyes to the point of blindness. Death did not happen in all these pups. Some of them did, however, take months to get over it.

Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:38:00 EST Subject: FEL-L: Cat litter

I recieved an e-mail asking what kind of cat litter we use. It seems someone recently lost Serval kittens from eating pine litter. We use Wheat litter, but thought I'd pass this on to the list. Anyone heard of pine litters being poisonious to cats? Thanks, Katzpat

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:41:57 EST Subject: Re: FEL-L: Cat litter

Gees - I have been using "Feline Pine" litter ( a pelleted pine ) for my cats -- including servals -- for YEARS.... I had always thought it safer than regular litter Do you have any more info on the kittens who died???? Anyone else use this stuff??? Thanks Nan

Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:35:05 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Cat litter

I don't know all the species of pine which may be dangerous but I would put lodge pole pine from the northwest at the low end and yellow southern pine at the high end... In general, the more resinous a species, the more danger from various terpines...

There is also a layer of growth between the bark and core that can be rich in natural pesticides, so the whiter the wood chips are, the less dangerous they would be... It's not too much of an issue unless a cat takes to eating them.

Also, the chips very high in resin would tend to stick to the cat's fur which you would notice right away, like the postit decked chicken in TV ads.

Sorry I can't be more specific...

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:38:41 -0800 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Cat litter

Thanks John, I switched from cedar (after our last conversation) to a pine/fir combination called 'white shavings'. They are fairly large in size, almost no dust, and no pitch. Sounds like they might be ok. The cats don't eat them. Not even interested in rolling in them like they were in the cedar. The like to sleep in them though, because they are soft and springy like a mattress.

Interesting note: At the feed store an 'old timer' told me that in horses kept standing in cedar for a number of years, the resins in the cedar will eat away the horses hooves.

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:13:08 -0600 Subject: Re: FEL-L: Cat litter

> I switched from cedar (after our last conversation) to a pine/fir combination

I don't know where Jazmyn has been lately, but she uses aspen shavings for her small animals. Says there is nothing harmful in it.

Have you tried the pine pellets that break into sawdust when a cat urinates on them? Can't remember the name. You can throw them onto your garden for mulch, according to the bag, because the urine is virtually neutralized by the pine as long as you get rid of it as soon as it is all turned to sawdust. These pellets not for sleeping, tho. I've only found them at Pet Department.