Teaching Not to BITE
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 09:50:40 EDT Subject: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
I'd like some advice.
My seven week old Canadian Lynx is doing well with bonding. She is a pet, and I'd like her to be a friendly one to me and other humans. She chirps and purrs and snuggles. However she play bites fingers, toes, ears, and my nose.
It isn't a problem pain-wise at this age, but I'd like to know how to discourage that behavior AND maintain my positive relationship with her. I'm concerned, as some have shared with me, that the play-biting will be a real problem if she does it when she is bigger and older.
I'm bottle feeding, sleeping with her and other than the play-biting, she is doing well. She is using litter consistently and comes when I call for her.
Thanks for any suggestions. Kelly
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 14:47:20 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
distraction is the only way I have found to discourage my three year old bobcat from bitting. When he is in a playful mood I have a stuffed toy or rag to use as a buffer between his teeth and my hands. He still delights in creeping under the covers and bitting my toes, but he seems to regarde that as a joke.. If he is seriously violating the rules a squirt bottle full of water and a small amount of vinager. stops him.
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:23:56 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
Yeah, you definatly don't want that to become an accepted behaviour, I speak from experiance. We have two Siberian Lynx, and the wife would let the female bite on her long hair, until the on day she bit her ear near off. Let me tell you, besides the pain, you don't want to try to explain that one to the emergency room. They just don't understand, and you could get everyone all worked up into a lather ("See, its to dangerous to have these in private hands, lets pass an ordinance..."), yada yada yada.
What we did for the male was we'd play UNTIL he would exhibit a behaviour that was unacceptable, then a sharp NO or NO BITE, or NO CLAW and he understood rather well. He still to this day is a very good boy, and the female isn't too bad either, but they still like to catch you off guard and jump on our backs and ride around. One word of advice on that too...if your cat gets on your back, do NOT stand up to get them off. Never,ever works and the only other accident we had was the make extended his claws to catch his balance and almost took my wife's eye out (caught the eyelid). Stay low and work your way to a spot where they will jump to another hay bale, chair, couch or whatever. Hope this helps some Tony
Licensed breeder of Siberian Lynx and occasional chew toy
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 13:18:27 -0700 Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
I always recommend using the command no mouth and as soon as you feel teeth on your skin any where give the command and at the same instant a sharp little smack. On the backside. You want the shock value and not a heavy hit type of thing. The goal is to get the animal to respond the minute you say no mouth. That is why the corporal correction must be given at the same time as the command. Otherwise cats are very smart and they learn that they might have a second or two to response to the command if you give it first then wait to follow with the corporal correction to the problem. I have seen cats trained this way and they usually soon realize that they have just a second or two to really take a good chomp before they run. You need to be as gentle as possible but still make sure you are getting your point across. You know your cat and you will have to watch and listen for how your individual baby responds to things and make judgement assessments as you go along. Good luck and give you kitty a kiss for me. Glenda
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 17:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
Other methods of discouragement: Pinch off their nostrils for a second reinforcing "no mouth" or whatever command you choose. Also a good flick on the nose helps. Lynn
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 19:13:02 -0400 Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
>Pinch off their nostrils for a second reinforcing "no mouth"
This assumes you can actually get hold of their nose! Most of the cubs I've worked with were squirmy, very quick little bundles of energy. Lisa
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 18:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
> Pinch off their nostrils for a second reinforcing "no mouth"
I never could catch that wiggly little nose either. I have a two year old female bobcat. I used the flick on the nose and the vinegar and water to stop her from biting when she was a baby. She will still try it when you are holding her and not paying attention to her, but just the word "no" works now. I certainly don't want her ever to bite down on my hand. Watching her bite through bones is enough to know I don't want that to be a part of my body. I think we all need to remember that these really are wild animals and at any time could quite easily hurt us, but we have taken that into consideration before we got our "pets". This cat has brought so much joy to my family, but we do accept the idea that she could easily hurt us in a moment of not thinking. We also have a Great Dane that lives in the house. One day my husband was holding the bobcat and the Dane walked up behind them. Normally the cat loves the dog(thinks she is one on some days), but this time Annie(Dane) startled her. In trying to get away she caught one of her fang teeth on my husbands arm. No, she didn't do it on pupose, she just reacted like a bobcat, but my husband has a two inch scar on his arm. No ER thank goodness. I know what that would have been like to explain!! Karla
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:49:15 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: How do I discourage play-biting?
Pinching my bobcats nose didn't work because he would just bite down harder and breath through his mouth. whacking his behind didn't work as he got bigger he got more aggresive and this seemed to only anger him. The vinager water works well for him. usually just the sight of a water bottle will stop him. He is usually very gentle when he plays but he can become angry in a heartbeat, luckilly he cools down just as quickly.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:22:38 EDT Subject: FEL-L: Lynx Biting
I was still wondering about the Lynx biting,.... My new one is about 2 months and loves to bite in play. Do I treat this the same as the big cats? I have a Leopard and a Cougar that I spent most of my time (in their younger years) telling them not to bite. It has paid off, but I have heard that you do not need this kind of discipline with the "mid-size" cats. Can anybody help?
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:11:02 -0700 Subject: RE: FEL-L: Lynx Biting
Well, unless you enjoy getting bit and spending time in the emergency room or urgency care clinic, I suggest treating the biting issue the same as with the big cats. Even though the mid-size cats may not be capable of the same amount of damage as the large cats, they can still cause serious injury. Aside from that, it's just no fun to play with or handle a cat that bites. All the cats that I raise are taught from tiny kittens that biting 'the mom' is unacceptable behavior under any circumstances. I never rough-house with them or encourage them to play with my hands. Hands are for affection (except for the occasional thump on the nose if a biting behavior should occur). I'm not paranoid about it and I have several cats who seem to enjoy holding my hand or wrist with their teeth as a part of our interaction, and that's OK. I figure it's my own fault if I ever get bit through this ritual though.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:42:06 EDT Subject: Re: FEL-L: Lynx Biting
Regarding play biting: With a 12 week old C. Lynx female I've been doing the following:
About once a week when she gives me a playbite on the hand, arm or shoulder I am prepared with a pressurized squirt gun. I fire immediately at the same time I growl. It has water in it and the pressure makes a hissing noise. She runs away for a few seconds.
Then the next time, be it that day or a later day I just growl with enough increase in volume so she stops right away. While it is rather Pavlovian, I think the association between the response to the squirt gun and the growl gets established. I am trying, successfully so far, to avoid a hit or thump as a discipline method.
She purrs a lot around me and simultaneously gives gentle head nudges, and yet she still, when in the ACTIVE!!!! mood, tries to get in a play bite or two. And that is when she gets a quick growl from me. Sometimes she just stops and looks at me. Then I give her a praising voice, similar to how I talk with her when she is just starting to eat (there's Pavlov again).
For what it is worth, it is working pretty well so far. (Thanks in large part to the folks who posted lots of great advice when I raised the question before this group a few weeks ago.) Kelly
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:17:32 -0800 Subject: FEL-L: Chew + Purr
Setting the stage for newbies...
Serval (E'Leisha) raised in the house since 4 weeks old, now almost 16 months old (SHE owns the house, we live to serve the Mistress with food and play time
Very loving and snuggly... but only on HER terms (she doesn't like to be picked up and held, jumping up next to us has to be her idea, and only when she feels like some affection)
So... when playing... she seldom purrs, but when she DOES, it is usually when she grabs an arm in her mouth then wraps her legs around and/or kicks, and THEN she purrs!
Basically, after watching other cats play, she seems to be treating US as if we were cats, and she plays semi-rough (the mouth grabbing is never in anger, just play... never any "real" pressure so that is not a problem, just curious)
Now the question... is this "common" for an exotic cat to treat their humans like another cat? Hmm... thinking about this, I guess that's the only way they COULD interact!
Oh well... just another data point in cat-human relations
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:46:56 EST
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Chew + Purr
We have a 3 1/2 yr old female cougar that seems to adore sticking her head under my husbands arm pit, wrapping ALL four legs around his arm and purring up a storm.
She purrs almost always, but this position seems to thrill her and her purrs are twice as loud. ( this position has her with her tummy up) Maybe it's the feeling of security they achieve from the 'total' contact? Karen
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:02:07 -0500
Subject: FEL-L: training
I am new to the list and was referred by Gary and Carol of Pride & Pack. They said this would be the place to ask questions! I would like any references, or advice anyone is willing to share with me. I need information on training tigers and I would appreciate all the advice I can get.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:26:55 -0500
Subject: Re: FEL-L: training
Guy: Exactly what type of training are you talking about?
I'm sure there will be many responses to your question, but it would help greatly, if the Listers know exactly where you are regarding the rearing of your tiger, and where you want to go with it. I'd be willing to bet that most of the tigers being cared for by people on this list, have not been trained to do much of anything except: eat; alot; and, often. However, most of us have been trained very well by our cats.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:27:07 -0700
Subject: Re: FEL-L: training
Depends on how old the tiger is and what you want to do as far as training. I have 2 tigers and have done some training. What age and weight is your tiger and have you been doing any training so far? One of my tigers was just filmed for a movie that might could out in 6 months or so. Watch for "MEL" a movie about a big turtle.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:40:19 EDT
Subject: Re: FEL-L: training
<< However, most of us have been trained very well by our cats. >>
Isn't that the truth : ) However during the course of THEM training US, we have come to a mutual understanding....... eating 'nicely' is a plus...... mouths don't belong on OUR body parts, and we all keep how ever many legs we have planted firmly on the ground ! Just a few basic's to make all our lives much more pleasant : )
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:37:12 -0700
Subject: FEL-L: Re Training
Don't have a Tiger, but know someone who does If you are speaking of a BABY, some pointers - Always think BIG... what is cute now is dangerous later!
For example... a baby running up to throw itself into your lap is a lot of fun... but 400 pounds of "baby" who means to show affection can wind up doing a lot of damage to a frail human body
Gently, but FIRMLY teach your baby that biting is not accepted... put a bit of vinegar or lemon juice in water in a spray bottle... spray into the baby's mouth (never the eyes!!!) every time it goes to bite... and expect your baby to continue to test you! (cats express themselves by licking and putting their mouths on whoever/whatever is near... your main hope is to raise a happy cat who is only "mouthing" and not "biting")
Declaw early... talk to your vet about the proper age
Leave the teeth alone... you can have MAJOR jaw problems by trying to trim teeth down (I have even heard of cats dying of complications)
From the FIRST DAY talk to your baby and put your hands all over its body so it will get used to being touched... especially at meal times so you don't wind up with a Tiger that is "growly" when eating - The scale is different, but when my Serval is eating I can (and do) rub her all over, and can even put my hands in her food bowl
Go to http://www.tigertouch.com especially read http://www.tigertouch.com/page17.htm
As big an enclosed area as you can afford... a cat who has room to run and play is MUCH happier than one who can only pace... plus your cat will be healthier with exercise and room to knock toys around for muscle tone
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:48:19 -0500
Subject: FEL-L: Tiger training
Thank you for your replies. The training I am interested in is mostly behavior during interaction. I have had my nineteen month old bengal since she was six months old. I have always had problems with her jumping on me. I have used vinegar and tapping on the nose and I was always consistent in telling her no and reacting to her jump with a reprimand. She has improved greatly but still jump in times of excitement. Is there possibly another trick I can use to help stop this behavior? Thank you again.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:45:44 EDT
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Re Training
> Leave the teeth alone... you can have MAJOR jaw problems by trying to
If anyone were to doubt the importance of this, I know of a tiger they should meet. Such a wonderful guy, but you can't ignore how he was mutilated for the supposed purpose of making him "safe" for circus use.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:07:43 EDT
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tiger training
For jumping you train the same as you would for a dog. You either come up with your knee very hard to the tiger's gut and say NO or NO JUMP like you mean it, or when the cat jumps up on you either step on the back foot as the cat jumps up or kick the hind foot out from underneath the cat to throw the animal off balance and use the NO command again.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:18:13 -0700
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tiger training
I have no idea if this would work with a tiger cub, but when training dogs not to jump on people, we say 'no' and then spray the dog in the face with water. For some dogs the water doesn't work, and in that case we use vinegar (aiming for the nose area, not the eyes). Also, when the dog chooses not to jump on us (for example, during a greeting, which is when they usually jump on us) we reward the dog with praise or a treat to say that not jumping on us is a good behavior. This has been very effective for us and our dogs, but don't take my word for it when it comes to big cats. Has anyone tried something like this with a big cat? Annie
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:26:54 EDT
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tiger training
I have been dealing with a jumping C. Lynx kitten. I don't know if what works with a Lynx will work with a Tiger, or your Tiger.
When jumping or any undesired behavior (like play biting) I've been growling and hissing. I start it just before the jump commences. I adjust the intensity to get a "withdraw" response. I have successfully avoided tapping, hitting, slapping, tripping or any physical actions other than a gentle grab and hold while praising. I did use a compression squirt gun at the beginning with just water aimed at the body, not the eyes. That seemed to create appropriate respect, fear, aversion or whatever you call a retreating cat.
When I growl for a few seconds just before or just after an episode of bad cat behavior, she rolls over with feet in the air -- I suppose a submissive posture. Notably, there is no hissing back at me (there was at first.). I only do that for a few seconds. After a bit of submission or retreat I revert to praise, gentle touch and a game of fetch with a sock tied in a knot.
Will this work for a Tiger? I don't know if it is appropriate for another Canadian Lynx, however, it is working for THIS five month old female. She purrs loudly almost any time I greet her. So far, so good. I purr too.
I figure what she learns not to do now will be even better not to do when she is 30 to 40 pounds, as you mentioned, like jumping on me. Let me know how it goes! Kelly
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:23:28 EDT
Subject: Re: FEL-L: Tiger training
Tigers love water. They will sit in it for hours and when do you carry a squirt bottle with you when playing with a cat the size of the tiger? They must be taught young but most people do not start to train until they have grown and learned any bad habit. They must be taught from day one.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:00:17 -0500
Subject: FEL-L: Tiger Training Books?
Just curious, Is there anyone who knows of what books might be out on the way that the entertainers train tigers or Lions? I'd like to see what they are doing, I remember the one titled "The Tiger On Your Couch".